FAIR SHAKE

**gladhand** · Joined: 18 Mar 2008 Posts: 310 Location: East Coast, USA

FINAL VERSION SENT & RECEIVED BY EBAY-PLEASE SEE "NEW DEVELOPMENTS" SECTION FOR DETAILS.
THIS VERSION NOW OBSOLETE.

MISSION

1. Unite members of the eBay community through our mutual grievances.

2. Refrain from buying on eBay until all terms are satisfactorily and mutually agreed

upon

3. Refrain from selling on eBay until all terms are satisfactorily and mutually agreed

upon

4. Promote Any AND All eBay sellers who sell on other sites

5. Stay committed and loyal to each other by purchasing from Ebay Refugees

(boycotting eBay sellers)

GRIEVANCES

1. Feedback Changes

A. Buyers will only be able to receive positive feedback effective May 2008.

B. Feedback older than 12 months will no longer be applied towards your

feedback percentage.

C. Neutral Feedback will now be considered as negative to determine buyer

dissatisfaction rate and seller account restrictions.

2. DSR's (Detailed Seller Ratings)

A. eBay allows buyers to think that a 4.0 (on a scale of 1-5) denotes good

business practices by the seller regarding item as described, communication,

shipping time and shipping and handling charges, while sellers are subjected to

various penalties for that same score.

B. DSR's are rated on a curve. Results of this curve may make even a rating of a 4.8

the median in a given rating category.

C. DSR's will now be intertwined with "Best Match" search positioning.

D. eBay is unjustly red-flagging "good" sellers as well as "bad" sellers by stating

sellers with a 4.5 rating (On a scale of 1-5) now have a "low" rating, thereby

implying they are in the category of "bad sellers".

E. "Bad" Sellers will be kept because of their monetary value.

3. Minimum 21 Day PayPal Hold For Risky Sellers And Risky Categories

A. Sellers whose total feedback score is not more than 100 will have payments held

for up to 21 days.

B. Risky category sellers will be subjected to a 21 day hold, even well established

sellers.

C. Sellers with 5% or greater negatives in a 30 day period will be subject to the 21

day hold regardless of the circumstances.

4. Unreasonable Fee Increases

A. Promoted to the Ebay community as decreases, only the insertion fees were

decreased. Insertion fees decreased by $.05 with the gallery picture given free

($.35 savings) yet FVF (final value fees) raised by as much as 66%.

B. Reserve fees increased from $1.00 to $2.00 and will no longer be refunded if

the item sells.

C. Store FVF's (final value fees) increased to 12% above and beyond monthly and

listing fees.

5. Miscellaneous

A. The universal anonymous bidder policy promotes additional

unsafe buyer practices and has led to buyers losing trust in the system.

B. The majority of Power Sellers will not qualify for newly stated discounts.

C. The note "This item is not covered by buyer protection on eBay," which is

placed in two areas of the listings of sellers who do not offer PayPal, causes

harm to the good sellers' reputations and intimidates buyers.

D. eBay sellers are red-flagged on their listing page if their rating is 4.2 and below

(per the beta test).

E. When sellers are red-flagged, eBay also lists other sellers' items on said sellers'

listings. (per the Beta Test for eBay Express items)

TERMS

1. Remove the DSR system or change in accordance with the above grievances.

2. Revise the feedback system through constructive means with user input and

suggestions.

3. No PayPal hold of the seller's payments associated with eBay transactions.

4. Reduction of fees.

5. Anonymous bid policy should be up to the individual eBay member or be removed.

6. No seller or buyer should be required to use PayPal.

7. Equitable search.

**HobNobby** · Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:23 am Post subject:

This is the most concise, yet thorough analysis of the situation I have seen anywhere, so far. Thank you for submitting this. I thought I was well informed, but I even learned one thing from this, myself (see point 1.C.)

This is a MUST READ for anyone assoicated with eBay in any way! Thank you for submitting this, glad!

**gladhand** · Joined: 18 Mar 2008 Posts: 310 Location: East Coast, USA

Thank YOU HobNobby. I was originally going to post the original announcement by ebay in the interest of objectivity, but since it obfuscates the truth and is so full of spin it's rendered meaningless. It is also anything BUT objective.

People coming here for the first time need to be able to get at the truth about these policies and what they mean to them.
This proposal is being, or already has been, voted on by the eBay community as a whole and will be submitted to eBay's executive board for consideration.

I plan to update everyone when this has been submitted, and of course, again when (if) eBay responds to it. Of course, the hope is that we'll all be reading eBay's response to it in the media!

maggie45 · Joined: 03 Apr 2008 Posts: 104 Location: Northeast PA

Thanks for making it concise. I would like to see this in a petition format that we can submit to Ebay on May 1st and await an answer from them.

I see three things possibly happening:

Ebay give in and grants all our wishes
Ebay throws us some more carrots
Ebay ignores us completely - well they'll probably send us a nice note with a PR spin - but basically ignore us

I know when negotiating usually you demand more than you expect and then try to get what you really want - so we have to react and decide, hopefully as a group --

Let's say they concede on giving us back feedback - do we accept the rest of their pile of crap?
If they lower fees a bit - do we accept that, etc. or are we going for the whole ball of wax?

If they continue ignoring us - we leave and just sell elsewhere (this is where we need a mass movement to just a few sites. I know one site won't be agreed on by all - but I think we can narrow it down to the top 3 or 4. (I'm talking auction sites here - this needs to be done separately in a store format)

We also have to realize that there's another approach here - one I've been doing myself since Feb. 25th, (although I will support the boycott) - which is listing very minimally on ebay - maybe 5-10 things a week - to drive traffic away to my Ecrater store. I mean, many of us have developed a ton of customers on ebay and I don't really see anything wrong with using their own platform to destroy them, if need be. We need to start a new thread on exactly how to do this, but it includes sending all your buyers and bidders emails about your site and utilizing the About Me Page. Personally, I'd like to keep up my power seller status until 5/1 so that I can drag along 100% feedback after they take off my 8 negatives that are over a year old (in fact most are over 3 years old before they had feeback withdrawal). I feel they owe me something.
_________________
BUY & SELL AT http://collectorsonlinemall.com
http://pennsylvania-antiques.com

I-am-in · Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Posts: 62

Hello everyone,
Maggie- i 'm trying not to laugh...u r 2 funny
"Re: see three things possibly happening:

Ebay give in and grants all our wishes
Ebay throws us some more carrots
Ebay ignores us completely - well they'll probably send us a nice note with a PR spin - but basically ignore us "
the only thing i see .. is ebay eliminating the sellers too - and just running the whole show themselves.. lol.... there are other auciton sites out there waiting to be the next best New "ebay"- but bigger , better, and fairer.. I won't even go to ebay to look at anything... due to the electronic trackers... so that's a couple of less footprints they won't be able to add into their numbers...
Boycott to infinity and beyond !

I-am-in · Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Posts: 62

I'm not sure if anyone heard- i'm pretty most here have.. but in case.. i'm gonna tell ya that ebay is trying to "buy" customers with coupons...
I've been in touch with a batch of my old customers - and they left ebay some time back... as they felt that their was a lack of security regarding their own information. Some are also sellers- and have abandoned ship and gone over to ola.com and ecrater - which are steadily moving up the later- of which i too will be doing very shortly.
I'm registered on both - as a buyer for the moment... but will be turning it over to seller..
Gotta start somewhere... and Ebay is too far down the pike to go back to... but i'm still standing tall with everyone -boycotting ebay... and will draw whoever i think is trustworthy enough to come here-if that's okay with all.

maggie45 · Joined: 03 Apr 2008 Posts: 104 Location: Northeast PA

I heard they are offering customers $10 coupons when they clip the stars off sellers DSR's. I'm not sure since I have not bought anything on ebay lately. Anyone else here this?
_________________
BUY & SELL AT http://collectorsonlinemall.com
http://pennsylvania-antiques.com

**gladhand** · Joined: 18 Mar 2008 Posts: 310 Location: East Coast, USA

Welcome Maggie & I-am-in!
Maggie, re: "Thanks for making it concise. I would like to see this in a petition format that we can submit to Ebay on May 1st and await an answer from them."

This document is actually the boycott effort's official response to the new policies, and has been rewritten and tweaked many times. It is being prepared for formal delivery to eBay's executives. I'll update everyone here when that happens!

maggie45 · Joined: 03 Apr 2008 Posts: 104 Location: Northeast PA

Well you did a really great job and deserve some kudos. I'll be very interested in their response.
_________________
BUY & SELL AT http://collectorsonlinemall.com
http://pennsylvania-antiques.com

**gladhand** · Joined: 18 Mar 2008 Posts: 310 Location: East Coast, USA

Maggie, the document was the work of many people. I must clarify that I contributed nothing to it myself, (I wish I could say had!) but am merely posting it here. Thanks again!

**FirmGrip** · Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:58 am Post subject:

It really is a fine document, and I would like to express my appreciation to all those who worked so hard in creating it. I always admire something that is so obviously well researched and intelligently written. There are a lot of really fine people participating in this boycott, and it is nice to see such a professional approach.

KUDOS!!
_________________

.....We All Deserve a Fair Shake!.....

porsche_pilot · Joined: 10 Apr 2008 Posts: 1

just like before the Revolution,, we need to throw overboard the Tea into the Bay..the E-Bay. We must stand firm for our rights as buyers and sellers and not allow this organization of Greed for the Buck to rule this internet sales method.

What is said about the Boycott is true and hits home...Shame on you E-Bay... I can do business this way anymore with you.

**gladhand** · Joined: 18 Mar 2008 Posts: 310 Location: East Coast, USA

porsche! Aren't you the resourceful one-liking you alot already! See you in a l'il bit in the Oak Room!
jkoogertie/gladhand

balzenawe · Joined: 19 Mar 2008 Posts: 128

GRIEVANCES AND TERMS STATEMENT

GRIEVANCES

1. Feedback Changes
A. Buyers will only be able to receive positive feedback effective May 2008.
B. Feedback older than 12 months will no longer be applied towards your
feedback percentage.
C. Neutral Feedback will now be considered as negative to determine buyer
dissatisfaction rate and seller account restrictions
2. DSR'S (Detailed Seller Ratings)
A. eBay allows buyers to think that a 4.0 (on a scale of 1-5) denotes good
business practices by the seller regarding item as described, communication,
shipping time and shipping and handling charges, while sellers are subjected to
various penalties for that same score.
B. DSR's are rated on a curve. Results of this curve may make even a rating of a 4.8
the median in a given rating category.
C. DSR'S will now be intertwined with "Best Match" search positioning.
D. eBay is unjustly red-flagging "good" sellers as well as "bad" sellers by stating
sellers with a 4.5 rating (On a scale of 1-5) now have a "low" rating, thereby
implying they are in the category of "bad sellers".
E. "Bad" Sellers will be kept because of their monetary value.
3. Minimum 21 Day PayPal Hold For Risky Sellers And Risky Categories
A. Sellers whose total feedback score is not more than 100 will have payments held
for up to 21 days.
B. Risky category sellers will be subjected to a 21 day hold, even well established
sellers.
C. Sellers with 5% or greater negatives in a 30 day period will be subject to the 21
day hold regardless of the circumstances.
4. Unreasonable Fee Increases
A. Promoted to the Ebay community as decreases, only the insertion fees were
decreased. Insertion fees decreased by $.05 with the gallery picture given free
($.35 savings) yet FVF (final value fees) raised by as much as 66%
B. Reserve fees increased from $1.00 to $2.00 and will no longer be refunded if
the item sells.
C. Store FVF's (final value fees) increased to 12% above and beyond monthly and
listing fees.
5. Miscellaneous
A. The universal anonymous bidder policy promotes additional
unsafe buyer practices and has led to buyers losing trust in the system.
B. The majority of Power Sellers will not qualify for newly stated discounts
C. The note "This item is not covered by buyer protection on eBay," which is
placed in two areas of the listings of sellers who do not offer PayPal, causes
harm to the good sellers' reputations and intimidates buyers.
D. eBay sellers are red-flagged on their listing page if their rating is 4.2 and below.
(per the beta test)
E. When sellers are red-flagged, eBay also lists other sellers' items on said sellers'
listings. (per the Beta Test for eBay Express items)

TERMS

1. Remove the DSR system or change in accordance with the above grievances.
2. Revise the feedback system through constructive means with user input and
suggestions.
3. No PayPal hold of the seller's payments associated with eBay transactions..
4. Reduction of fees
5. Anonymous bid policy should be up to the individual eBay member or be removed.
6. No seller or buyer should be required to use PayPal.
7. Equitable search

Last edited by balzenawe on Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

maggie45 · Joined: 03 Apr 2008 Posts: 104 Location: Northeast PA

I think this is really good and I think we shouldn't wait for 5/1.

We should give them until 4/20 for a reply as to whetehr they will meet our demands or we will boycott 5/1.
_________________
BUY & SELL AT http://collectorsonlinemall.com
http://pennsylvania-antiques.com